E10 is damaging older cars

[gsi pie]

http://bbs.rallyesportescorts.co.uk/sho ... hp?t=68838

(copy'd from another forum)

I had heard this was on the horizon and I was already aware of E5/5% ehanol content being present in most fuels.
10% is destroying cars and it is only going to get worse.

Make sure your car is in good shape and buy fuel that does not contain E10.

As one of the lads on that thread says, it is infuriating that this has all been swept under the rug, with no warnings for owners of older vehicles susceptible to this crap.

[Cavalier342]

Great, so now we can't even put regular gasoline in without damaging something....

I use Shell mainly, I bloody hope they know what they're putting into their fuel.....

[James McGrath]

gasoline

What are you American?

Anyway, yeah I use shell petrol. Really annoyed that shell fuel saver has been "temporarily" unavailable for about a year now.

[Cavalier342]

I should be American!

We get fuel saver here, it's always available. Wonder why you don't get it

[belmont_dazz]

Reckon this will have an impact on our Cavs?! How true do you think it is?
From reading that I wont be using shell again! 13% ethanol. Tesco momentum sounds alot better now.

[James McGrath]

Wonder why you don't get it

I would like to know too!

Reckon this will have an impact on our Cavs?!

I think my CD auto has been affected, it's only the rubber fuel lines that were affected but they were leaking when I bought it.

[Cavalier342]

Sounds like age-related wear and tear to me.

[James McGrath]

Sounds like age-related wear and tear to me.

It probably is.

But it's only 3 years older than the others and they are all fine.

[humbucker]

I think I'm right in saying that ethanol absorbs water, which then gets circulated around the fuel system causing corrosion e.g. if a layer of water/condensation has collected in your fuel tank then the ethanol in your fuel will absorb this and cause you a few problems when it travels around the system. The concern is for 'classic' cars who are left standing over the winter with a tank of ethanol-heavy E10 fuel in them. As an aside, I think drivers of petrol tankers have to check for water content in petrol stations tanks before they can dump their load. If there are any present then they must refuse to offload the fuel.

While the fuel companies are being blamed, it's actually a legal mandate set out by the government in a desperate bid to promote biofuels that is the cause of the problem. The whole 'treating the symptom rather than the problem' approach to global warming that the idiots in power have adopted. Tsk. Of course, we can't go on raping the world for fossil fuels, so it's not really (another) attack on the motorist per se, but I guess technology moves on and many of us have to find ways of dealing with the fallout.

The ethanol mixture in many fuels now has to be circa 5%, however, Super Unleaded type fuels do not feature as much as 'regular' fuels. The downside is that there are massive regional variations in fuel quality/ethanol content based on the supply of various refineries, so in the South West you might be using the same brand of fuel as someone in Glasgow, but the ethanol content of that fuel is entirely different. The only sure fire way to know what you're putting in the car is to test for ethanol levels in a sample before chucking it in the car.

To understand why this happens, it's important to note that the addition of ethanol occurs at the very last minute, when the fuel has been filled into the tanker and is ready to be driven away. Ethanol sitting in the storage tanks at the refinery would corrode them, not to mention the pipelines, so that principle should apply to your own car's fuel system! Forecourt tanks have had to be modified to allow for short term ethanol storage.

Other concerns are that many included corrosion inhibitors, as well as the ethanol presence itself, may cause problems if you have undertaken some DIY repairs on your fuel system (including sealants etc) which might come unstuck and find their way into the system itself. Blocked filters etc spring to mind, as well as the erosion of the rubber gaskets around the petrol tank filler neck.

There is now a push from Whitehall for fuel companies to increase the 5% ethanol content to 10%. This is bad news for older cars that were never designed to run on this kind of fuel. Copper fuel lines, fuel pump components, and carb driven motors with cork gaskets, diaphragms etc are most at risk. The sad fact of this is that in the UK there are no legal obligations on the part of the fuel companies to display the ethanol content on the pumps e.g. E5 E10 etc. The government are again the bad guys here.

Super Unleaded is not so much of an issue, it's regular fuel that is the main problem. The following info should be of use (correct at time of post):

BP
Ethanol is added at 5% to unleaded petrol at all sites across the UK. BP Ultimate (super unleaded petrol) does not have Ethanol added, except in the South West of England.

Esso
Ethanol is added at 5% to unleaded petrol at most sites in the UK. Esso Super Unleaded petrol does not contain Ethanol, except in the South West of England (Devon & Cornwall)

Shell
Shell has repeatedly refused to answer the question. It is therefore an assumption only, that all Shell petrol should be considered to contain 5% Ethanol.

Texaco
Ethanol is added at 5% to unleaded petrol. Texaco Super Unleaded petrol does not contain Ethanol.

Total
Ethanol is not added to any Total fuel (including standard unleaded petrol). Except in the North West and South East of England.

Total have kindly provided a list of filling stations where E0 petrol can still be purchased. Click this link to download the list: http://is.gd/rq1Ctf.

According to Chris Thompson CAE Eng Tech AMIMI, "as far as I can gather, the only reason that the super unleaded fuels seem to be ethanol free is because it is harder to obtain the fuel quality required for super unleaded if ethanol is present. However several of the oil companies told me that this will change in the future but that no date has been set."

I think I might stop using V-Power from now on... :/

[CavNoirDip]

A really interesting summary; thank you for that.

[btcctroy]

However ethonal is much better for your engine. Petrol is a very dirty sooty fuel whereas ethanol is much cleaner. Though running e85 requires a lot more engine modifications as the compression needs to be increased. The air fuel ratio of the fuel needs to be increased somewhat. It's the power output that changes a lot. Say for example you have 100 bhp this will increase by a 3rd, So 133bhp. But for me I only use super unleaded anyway I think it lasts longer, which should be the case if there's ethanol in Standard fuel. I worked in an oil refinery back in 2007 and they were adding ethanol to standard fuel then

[Cavalier342]

I was thinking of running the V6 on super unleaded... but then the cost of it, would there be any point? I guess it would just be a case of replacing the fuel filter more often and inspecting the fuel lines more regularly..

[humbucker]

Yes, if you can do it then it is worth running the car on super unleaded for all the reasons listed above. It's more expensive than regular fuel but tests do suggest that you get better mileage out of it, as well as performance.

[Cavalier342]

I'll run it to nigh on empty and fill up with super or V-power then, see if it makes any difference.

[humbucker]

Not V-Power! Read the post again! Avoid Shell!

[Cavalier342]

Ok, Esso is the nearest decent station about so probably go there then. Wonder why the south West region is different to others

[James McGrath]

Is it wise to run on super when you don't have the correct RON plug?

I can run the CD auto on Super as that has a 95/98 RON plug, but the other 3 have 91/95 plugs.

[planetc]

Running higher octane is fine James, just avoid doing it the other way around

[Envoy CDX]

Hmm, all things to consider.

Total maybe getting more of my custom..

[James McGrath]

Running higher octane is fine James, just avoid doing it the other way around

It doesn't do any damage to the CAT then?

[planetc]

Running higher octane is fine James, just avoid doing it the other way around

It doesn't do any damage to the CAT then?

no

[James McGrath]

Looks like I'll be using BP ultimate from now on then.

[planetc]

The advantage is that if you can use a 98 Ron plug then the system will take advantage of the advanced timing possibility

[gsi pie]

http://www.cavalierandchevetteclub.co.u ... age_17.htm

[Cavalier342]

May have to consider getting those ethanol resistant hoses then and replace them if mine start to show signs of splitting. My V6 does have a 98 rating plug I believe, so I'll be swapping that over too for use with super unleaded.